Help with hi-hat closure

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Mr_Bluesguy
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Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:01 pm

Help with hi-hat closure

Post by Mr_Bluesguy »

Not sure if this a DIY or Trouble-shooting topic.
I have a DIY hi-hat constructed with a hall effect sensor and two 14" LV hat cymbals. Using hi hat levels mode. Position sensing is accurate and very consistent with plenty of resolution. The problem is that I don't always get a consistent "hat closed" note, or "chick" sound upon full pedal closure. I get a "half closed" sound instead. Even as i keep the hat full closed, the half closed sound is still triggered with every stick hit. The indicator on the hat levels control shows it's in full closed position. Calibration has been done and is normal. It seems as if the pedal controller doesn't always send a "hat closed" note. It seems to mostly happen if the hats haven't been opened at least half way to full before closing. Can't find anything in the manual that addresses this, and have done endless tweeking of every parameter that seems like it could have any affect.
Has anyone else experienced this? Any ideas? Thanks!
AKA Wayne
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Re: Help with hi-hat closure

Post by AKA Wayne »

Check your travel settings. The green line should be adjusted so it is nearly colinear to the point on the curve that corresponds with your hats fully closing.
Mr_Bluesguy
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Re: Help with hi-hat closure

Post by Mr_Bluesguy »

AKA Wayne- thanks for your response. Unfortunately, the travel setting doesn't seem to be the problem. In fact there is NO setting that makes any difference whatsoever. The bottom line is that I can't get a consistent hat close sound if the hat's closure hasn't begun from a nearly full open position. Travel range from 0 to 100% makes no difference. To re-iterate, the position indicator tracks the pedal movement precisely and consistently. I have totally run out of things to adjust. Rob, any insights?
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Rob
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Re: Help with hi-hat closure

Post by Rob »

Hi,

The issue is that your hihat has too much mechanical range. The hihat must return to 70% open before another closed pedal note can be triggered.

A typically hihat will have about 1-3 cm of physical travel, but I suspect yours has much more than that. A quick fix to your problem would be to adjust the calibration range so that your hihat is registering fully open after the moving about 2-3 cm.
Mr_Bluesguy
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Re: Help with hi-hat closure

Post by Mr_Bluesguy »

So, I have a physical adjustment for stroke length on the hi hat. As per your suggestion, I adjusted down to 2 cm opening and recalibrated. It helped, but still not great. It seems to work okay sometimes, but not consistently. Is there anything significant about 70% opening before a close trigger can happen, or could that be a user defined parameter? A lot of my "barks" occur at 40-60% of full opening. Also, could you please explain the function of the travel control? I did read about it in the manual, but can't relate it to what i experience. It seems that no matter where I place it, there's no noticeable difference. Feels like I'm missing something important here.
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Rob
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Re: Help with hi-hat closure

Post by Rob »

The 70% restriction is there to prevent false closed pedal notes--especially when using a hihat controller that is not on a stand as the hihat position will bounce a lot.
The travel control determines where along the pedals travel a note can be
issued. In the image on the right, the line traces the position of the pedal
over time. The pedal must pass into the green area in order for a note to
be generated.
I don't think it gets any clearer than what I've already written in the manual.

Can you post a pic of your design?
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dsteinschneider
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Re: Help with hi-hat closure

Post by dsteinschneider »

This thread is helpful - my travel was 3.3 centimeters. I adjusted it to 2.5 - it plays better
Mr_Bluesguy
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Re: Help with hi-hat closure

Post by Mr_Bluesguy »

As requested, here are the basic details of my build:
sensor  enclosure
sensor enclosure
IMG_3835.jpg (66.97 KiB) Viewed 11897 times
magnet on backside of pedal
magnet on backside of pedal
IMG_3834.jpg (51.62 KiB) Viewed 11897 times
The sensor is an SS49E flush mounted on surface of the box. 1/4" jack in end of box. Neodymium magnet mounted on back side of pedal, Very simple, very solid.
You are correct, the manual's explanation couldn't be more clear. It seems to be irrelevant where I place the control, the problem remains. I'm guessing the problem probably originate somewhere else.
I am actually having two issues which may or may not be related.
(1) I randomly get a soft or "loose open" sound instead of a sold closed "Chic" when doing a bark.
(2) The hat position indicator needs to be at nearly full open before a solid "closed hat" sound can be triggered. This is different from the first problem, as there is no closed sound at all, not even the "loose close" heard in the first case. Again, this happens no matter where the travel control bar (green area) is placed. Below is a screen shot of pedal page:
set up page
set up page
IMG_3837.jpg (56.59 KiB) Viewed 11897 times
Also, I'm using the latest 2.3.0.12 software
I literally have a good 6-8 hours into trying everything I can think of including mechanicals of the hat stand and sensor set up. I'm not going to have any hair left! :(
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Rob
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Re: Help with hi-hat closure

Post by Rob »

Ideally the travel control should be close the the end of the pedal's travel--if you have a two piece hihat, if should be set just before the hihat cymbals come into contact. You probably need to turn up the xTalk control for the pedal. It's set too low and the hihat cymbal triggers a note, it can prevent the pedal note from being generated. See if those changes improve things.
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Rob
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Re: Help with hi-hat closure

Post by Rob »

Are you trying to power the SS49E directly from the eDRUMin hihat pedal?

According to the datasheet, that sensor needs at least 4V. Also, hall effect sensors produce a voltage proportional to the magnetic field, but the way you have things setup, the magnetic field is going to drop off in a non linear fashion. I'm not sure how that's going to affect things. I'll try an hack together my own design next week and see if I can reproduce your issues.

UPDATE: That sensor should indeed work at 3.3V. The parametric data on Mouser was incorrect.
image.png
image.png (117.12 KiB) Viewed 11892 times
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