Finally Real E-Cymbals from Zildjian

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Ronyd
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Finally Real E-Cymbals from Zildjian

Post by Ronyd »

Zildjian released their version of an E-Kit.

But, the fact that every company never hit the mark on cymbals, whether rubber of some sort of metal cymbals I think Zildjian may have hit the mark. Using the L80's, they managed to get a good balance of 3 zone triggering.

Unfortuneatly, proprietary use RJ45 connectors i believe.
scoTTTimo
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Re: Finally Real E-Cymbals from Zildjian

Post by scoTTTimo »

We just need Rob to develop similar technology. 8-)

I would LOVE to be able to use a low volume cymbal that isn’t dampened and can still ring out, yet is able to trigger VST drums.

Maybe a way to do it is there’s just one sensor on the cymbal, but a magnet on the drumstick, and a Hall effect sensor attached slightly above the center of the cymbal bell. The eDRUMin determines what midi notes to send based on the distance of the drum stick to the Hall effect sensor. So when you tap the bell, the magnet is closer, when you tap the bow, the magnet is farther, etc.
Luckymethod
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Re: Finally Real E-Cymbals from Zildjian

Post by Luckymethod »

scoTTTimo wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 10:55 pm
a way to do it is there’s just one sensor on the cymbal, but a magnet on the drumstick, and a Hall effect sensor attached slightly above the center of the cymbal bell. The eDRUMin determines what midi notes to send based on the distance of the drum stick to the Hall effect sensor. So when you tap the bell, the magnet is closer, when you tap the bow, the magnet is farther, etc.
You just need a vibration sensor midway like the zildjan and an angle sensor at the head mount and you get all the info you need to do three zones (I think) no need for the sensor on the stick.
scoTTTimo
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Re: Finally Real E-Cymbals from Zildjian

Post by scoTTTimo »

Luckymethod wrote:
Fri May 17, 2024 2:03 am
scoTTTimo wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 10:55 pm
a way to do it is there’s just one sensor on the cymbal, but a magnet on the drumstick, and a Hall effect sensor attached slightly above the center of the cymbal bell. The eDRUMin determines what midi notes to send based on the distance of the drum stick to the Hall effect sensor. So when you tap the bell, the magnet is closer, when you tap the bow, the magnet is farther, etc.
You just need a vibration sensor midway like the zildjan and an angle sensor at the head mount and you get all the info you need to do three zones (I think) no need for the sensor on the stick.
What do you mean “like the Zildjian”?

What’s an angle sensor?

What’s a vibration sensor for that matter? Are you talking about a standard piezo trigger?

Has anyone else done what you’re describing?
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Rob
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Re: Finally Real E-Cymbals from Zildjian

Post by Rob »

The obvious obstacle to implementing any active sensors is powering them. eDRUMin is unable to supply 3.3V though it's trigger inputs. The pedal input can, but it would be a cabling nightmare. Are the Zildjian cymbals using active components? Maybe that's why they went with the RJ45 connectors.
perceval
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Re: Finally Real E-Cymbals from Zildjian

Post by perceval »

Could be.

But I despise RJ45 connectors.
I broke all the tabs locking them in on all my cables lying around.

It's not too bad for a network cable, as these things don't move much, but especially bad for an e-drum kit, where you'd like your pads to stay connected through a practice or a gig!
Mr_Bluesguy
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Re: Finally Real E-Cymbals from Zildjian

Post by Mr_Bluesguy »

I've been wondering when this might become a topic of conversation on the edrumin forum. Drummers are seeing implementation of long desired features on high end modules that have raised expectations generally and more than a few questions.
Recently, I was fortunate enough to be able to spend some time on the new unreleased Zildjian Alchem-E kit, along with the new DW e-kit and a Roland TD-50 for comparison.
That experience is a whole different subject, but for me the one big takeaway was the sheer joy in playing the Zidjian kit's L80 metal cymbals, free of switches and rim rubbers and stuff hanging off the bottom except for one small disc piezo sensor halfway between bell and edge. They had a very natural feel and response, extreme sensitivity, accurate and repeatable zone separation, and no missed hits or double triggering. Choking was immediate with just a feather touch anywhere on the cymbal. And this was just the pre-release version with no access to parameter tweeks.The small “puck” under the bell that contains the RJ45 jack did not appear to be large enough or configured to accommodate a circuit board. I suspect there may be a capacitive sensor of some sort in there.
Rob-I don't know the depth of of your knowledge of waveform analysis techniques or even how they work, but I suspect its extensive. If active circuitry such as pre-filtering, DSP capabilities, waveform pattern recognition, capacitive sensors, etc. enables the “magic” the newer expensive modules provide.... What if you could create a companion product specifically for LV cymbals - maybe call it an eCYMin - with the same edrumin form factor and fits right in to the eDRUMin ecosystem and contains specifically the active circuitry needed for processing and controlling LV metal cymbals. Maybe it doesn't have to be limited to LV cymbals (although they're the most problematic) and could work for all types and brands of cymbals. A cool side effect would be to free up inputs on the main pad-centric eDRUMin for guys that want monster kits.
I know that's really out there and probably not realistic in any sense, but I just really want to see eDRUMin remain relevant and cutting edge as the accelerated pace of e-drum capabilities is raising expectations in the e-drummer world being dominated by stupidly expensive flagship modules.
Mr_Bluesguy
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Re: Finally Real E-Cymbals from Zildjian

Post by Mr_Bluesguy »

Update on my previous post- I have since learned that the cymbal technology is algorithm driven, not hardware driven. Supposedly there is a proprietary algorithm for each cymbal size. So never mind the fantasy eCYMin Rob! :D
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monospace
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Re: Finally Real E-Cymbals from Zildjian

Post by monospace »

I’ve played these in a Guitar Center, of all places, the other day and they sure feel nice, but I hate proprietary algorithms and I hate weird/fragile connectors like that. On top of that, it’s the sampling software that really makes the difference here. I’m not convinced these are the future, unless the future is proprietary shit for every vendor, make, and model. This is what I like about the eDrumIn, it’s a very basic waveform analysis device (no offense Rob) but it works with a huge variety of triggers. Once you start adding custom support for novelty triggers like this, you lose that advantage, and you might as well stick with the Zildjian module.
Miscellaneous Roland triggers. ED-10 + ED-4. MacBook Pro (2015), 16G RAM, Big Sur. Superior Drummer 3. Logic Pro.
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